I was looking over some old posts on an old blog I had when I first started blogging in 2005. It's funny how things change...not only lifestyles, but what a person thinks about or mulls upon...how we choose to expend our mental energy.
Back in 2005 the internet opened up a whole world of knowledge to me. I decided to follow my intellectual interests & tackle some of the questions & curiosities that were mulling around in my brain. Knowledge became an obsession. Thanks to the internet & other teaching aids... books, lectures, picking my smart friends brains, & some wonderful courses, I was able to enjoy the intellectual pursuit.
One question I tackled that I still go back to a lot, concerns morals & ethics... basically where they come from, is there such a thing as absolute morality & what is the direction humankind is going when it comes to morality & ethics.
To approach the matter in the right philosophical frame, & honestly examine the origin of morals & ethics, I feel have to first disengage myself from all the preconceptions I've picked up from my Judeo-Christian background to think clearly & honestly on the subject. Placing oneself in the position of being a human being rather then a believer or inheritor of a certain traditional mindset is essential to understanding the human condition with the least prejudice . This especially applies when it comes to questions of morals & ethics.
Although I've rejected the traditional Christian or religious mindset, I view the world from a secular humanist & mostly existentialist POV. This belief system of mine comes from my own experiences, thoughts, conclusions , etc...so I cannot say I don't lean in a particular direction. For example, as an atheist, I certainly don't think that morals & ethics are handed down to us from the monotheist's idea of god. I prefer to focus rather on our common innate human predispositions. For this reason a line of thought called evolutionary morality, resonates with me.
So, what about the religious argument that morality comes from a external god source & is therefore absolute? A sound philosophical argument against that is : Nothing in it's self is immoral & because god must first be judged to be found good, morality always precedes religion. Hence morality is a matter of human judgment.
I've come to the conclusion that most if not all of us are moral absolutists on some questions, meaning we believe there are at least some moral principles that are right in all social conditions, and we are also moral relativists believing some moral principles are right or wrong for us, and not necessarily for others. The religious are not exempt from this, as they make moral judgments about what God says all the time.
So if morality does not come from an external source then it must come from our own selves. I don't have a problem with this. But, then again I am not religious & don't believe humans are inherently evil & sinful. I do believe there is a rampant lack of understanding about human nature perpetrated by the self interest of those who would strive to control us. Just saying...
*Even the religious must agree the human mind can respond & adapt to an infinite range of environmental stimuli. The human brain is an amazing & complex organ that has set us apart from any other in the animal kingdom.
My good friend Infidel made me aware of the research done on our closest primate relatives involving their own complex social structures, etc... Considering this coupled with the extraordinary abilities of the human mind , it is not a long stretch for me to see how we are capable of putting together a rudimentary set of morals, that best helps us to survive as a species.
The last query "what is the direction humankind is going with morality & ethics?" is a fascinating question. Building on my reasoning & conclusions that morality is indeed a human construct & a evolutionary process, I believe humankind is capable of moving morally foreword & does have a future, contrary to what some fatalists would have us believe.
I'll conclude my post on stuff I think about, as I just wanted to give an overview & not make this post any longer then it already is.
*An interesting book called The Evolution of Morality By Richard Joyce goes into detail on the subject.


33 Comments:
Fascinating and well reasoned Rita. What do you think about the idea of evolution being driven by competition for limited resources?
I'm interested what you think, here is some more of my own thoughts on that matter.
competition for limited resources Isn't that what defines evolution?
The book Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond is interesting in that he argues that "civilization is not created out of sheer will or intelligence, but is the result of a chain of developments, each made possible by certain preconditions." Preconditions including such mundane & physical things like geography & the availability of pack animals.
You made this comment on the blog you linked to: I believe that there can be enough resources to go around if there is a more efficient and comfortable means of consuming our resources, if our wastes can be reduced via recycling, etc. All this requires a technological revolution though, to resort to socialist rationing policies is to take a major step backwards, we need market solutions to our inefficiencies instead. That will come naturally if prices reflect the supply of the resources. True, there are ways to reduce the strain on natural resources... birth control is one, technological advance as you point out is another. Marketing solutions, well I'm not even sure what that entails. Or how it would work. I do believe though, that people can live their entire lives without resorting to war, murder, or subjecting the poor to mortal deprivations to survive.
I mostly agree with your thoughts on the blog you linked to, esp. concerning karma.
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Well, as far as marketing solutions goes, I was thinking about a way to make bathing more comfortable and water efficient. Obviously smaller showers heat up faster than larger showers do (kind of like barbeques and ovens), well, I was thinking about a body suit of some kind where soapy water can be pumped and recirculated from the neck down to the feet while standing, kind of like a wash machine, perhaps there could be a massage function on there to build up some soapy scrubbing turbulence. Such a thing would save a lot of water, possibly worldwide, and it would keep the heat in since the suit would be thermally insulated (and make a guy like me super rich too).
There are many comfortable solutions like that to our consumption problems just waiting to be explored.
I can't remember whether I've previously sent you this link or not, but I think it's interesting.
For thousands of years humans have tended to think that any phenomenon they couldn't explain must be of supernatural origin. Science has now explained most of the external physical world, but there are still people who think that because we can't yet definitely explain the nature and origin of things like morality or free will, the only possible answer is "God made them" (or they don't actually exist). As with earlier natural phenomena, the correct answer is "We don't know yet, but in the future we will".
qf A shower suit.
That is an interesting concept. :)
I dunno, I still don't see how marketing solutions are the answer to the worlds woes. I just finished a book titled "A Splendid Exchange" By an economic theorist named William Bernstein, tracing the history of trade & commerce. Granted that these necessary things have contributed a lot to human kinds advancements, there is so much violent history & human misery attached to the acquisition of wealth & financial empires. The whole history of trade seems to me to fall into the realm of a necessary evil. Not that better management of resources isn't a necessary or vital part of the solution. I have not come to any comfortable solution in my own mind as to what form of government or system of economics is the best. Like the saying goes..."Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest."...making government another necessary evil. :)
Government is one step above religion, one step below business, and two steps below technology on the beaurocracy scale.
This is an interesting and impressive piece Ms.Rita.A little over my head actually. I actually never tried to analyze myself,or even know what I am or what I may or may not believe,to be more frank...I couldnt even really put what's in my mind in word's,or can even understand my thought's or dream's and or what influence's it.Probably too many drug's and the fast life I reckon.As far as what other's believe or any religion,heh,heh,heh,heh,heh, I never needed any of it...and what anyone believe's doesnt do a damn thing for me anywayz..so I leave most of it alone... but as I said in the beginning...alot of this stuff is way over my head(intelligence level,etc) and even my vocabulary.I basically just go by my animal instinct's I reckon,never knew anything else or gave it much thought.It's interesting though reading what folk's write about these thing's,again...nice posting!
Thank You Ms.Rita .......
Hey...since I'm onboard Ms.Rita, this may sound dumb...but my question is,what does "IMO" mean? I have noticed it when you last posted a comment on my journal...and I have seen it other time's....but really never knew what it meant. I figured out after a few month's online what "LOL" mean's ... I reckon I just say"heh,heh,heh" you know like a chuckle of sort. :)
Thanx.......
what does "IMO" mean?
"I molest orangutans".
Ms.Rita ...I wanted to still ask you what IMO mean's? Obviously this guy want's to just yank my chain above.
Thank You Ms.Rita .....
I went to watch "Taking Woodstock" (Ang Lee's latest movie on 1969 woodstock festival of hippies in New York)...after the movie, we went to have a drink and the conversation led to "sense of entitlement" and "moral issues"... the question of my friend is : "prash, don't you think a person who doesn't believe in any religion is somehow relates his moral values to one religion or the other as our society is all deeply rooted to religious values" this friend of mine is a Hong kong girl in her early 40s and she did her studies in the US, obviously we were talking about Asia (where Hinduism, Buddhism and the influence of Christianity during the Colonial time, is deep rooted in all these countries)...now i read your post. Interesting topic !
infidel
Thanks for the link. A very interesting read.
"We don't know yet, but in the future we will". A very good answer to the skeptics of skepticism.
I've come to the conclusion that the majority of people that continue to attribute things to supernatural causes do so merely because they want to. My friends & family know I'm an atheist, they know if they string together a series of coincidences & try to pass it off as a supernatural occurrence in my presence, it'll fall flat because there is a non-believer in attendance. I don't even have to say anything. It doesn't bother me because it makes THEM think about what they are saying.
Ranch chimp
"IMO" In My Opinion. :)
Reading your posts I've always thought you had a talent for ruminating. You can pick a subject & logically & reasonably follow it through, with out any indication that you are lacking in intelligence. "Vocabulary", well some people are snobby when it comes to things like that. (working for a newspaper, believe me, I catch crap from grammar Nazis all the time)
I try hard not to sound pretentious, I just use the words I pick up from reading & studying that seem to best describe what I want to say. Occasionally I bumble. BFD :)
For me it's not so much about how other people think or believe, it's more about how we human beings fit into the whole.
Prash
That's a very interesting topic to ponder. I have some thoughts on that.
Although, many of us learn about morals from being exposed to a traditional religion, it does not mean that morals came from the religion or the particular God associated with it.
That leads to another question...
Was human kind first a religious being or a philosophical one? Or is this a chicken & egg question?
Government is one step above religion, one step below business, and two steps below technology on the beaurocracy scale.
I'm finding this confusing... where is religion in relationship to business?
Maybe it's too much like those darn logic puzzles they always made us do in school, I was never good at those.
If Mrs. Brown lived in the green house & had the dog, who lived in the white house with the cat? Ay!Yi!Yi! :)
"IMO" ...thanx Ms.Rita ...see ... I should have figured out some shit as simple as that..a perfect example I reckon.Once Mr.Infidel brought up to me about a URL after I already been online almost a year, I didnt even know what the hell a URL was. :)
"Ruminating" a talent? Well thanx, I reckon I never reckonized it as a talent though.Yeah .. some thing's I know about in detail,but there are subject's like what I was just talking about above...where I'm simply dumb as a doorknob,I reckon. Yes...I could use some better wording actually, but when it comes to this journal...I like to write as if I am talking to a person(s)...you know what I mean? Since I am more used to talking to folk's on the street or wherever .. in person.I reckon if I was like writing a story like a fiction piece or somethin ...or actually trying to be a skilled or more pro writer...I would use better vocabulary...and if I didnt know enough...I would look some up. :) But I am best at communication's face to face with folk's I reckon.. because I deal with so many probably.I been online for a year and a half now...and can count the folk's(including you and Infidel)that I have communicated with on one hand! :)
Have a good un Girl! :)
RC, IMO you need the URL to an FAQ on the TLA* list PDQ so MFs don't BMB when you ask WTF they mean.
*Three-letter acronym
ranch chimp
urban dictionary is a great place to check out interesting slang & internet acronyms.
I don't know why my links aren't working.
I must have something disabled.
Religion < Government < Business < Technology
the world is a better place if Technology gets rid of Business which gets rid of Government which gets rid of Religion.
Looking at Mr.Infidel's last comment...I even had to try to read that a few time's to try to grasp WTF he was talking about? But it's beginning to sink in. I can also see he used a few of my all time favourite's...like BMB (one that I personally created that mean's Bitch,Moan and Bellyache,at least I never seen anyone else use it) .... MF's and WTF. :) Those are some of my more exquisite vocabulary term's...but only for friend's and loved one's.
QF's statement is interesting actually... because it almost sound's like when I talk about the "3 entities"(or for me...the "unholy trinity") being mega bank's,gvmnt's,and religion's throughout my posting's.His may be with a touch of humor,but when I talk about that I am serious.Some may feel if one of these 3 collapse humanity could decline into chaos(which is more fear BS) but that is so far from the truth. When these entities actually collapse...and they will...because throughout human history...like with the previous Roman and Mayan,French empire's,etc. they all have their "day" basically, then human's(people's) realize, they are no longer needed...loose faith in them,walk away or revolt and move to the next level, realizing they can do better, taking on thing's more for themselves.Understand that these power's/entities if you look throughout our history never do nothing...only dictate...it is the common people's that fight the war's,have the faith,manufacture the product's,come up with new invention's,and kep the money train running and replenished ... so in a way...the one's who are "truely" elite are the common people's... get my drift? We ask these folk's to dictate us,and depend on them to tell us what's next...then after awhile...you wonder...WTF do we need them for?
Later Girl ............
urban dictionary
(a href="www-website")link title(/a)
Rita, you should check the commentary on this one, lol....Black Sunshine
qf
I know how to HTML a link.
Well, it's been a bad week anyway...
Why do you put up with that Gideon buffoon?
Hi Rita,
Did you know that if you type in your blog address, except transpose the "S" and "P" in "blogspot", you get some sort of fundamentalist Christian Web site? I don't think it's malicious -- my anti-virus software didn't go crazy (thankfully -- it feels like a constant battle).
I can't seem to help myself Rita, these people just keep coming at me, I grew up with biblical literalists and I run into them too much. It is almost like fighting off zombies. At least they aren't commie christians like Micheal Moore, however, or I'd be doomed.
QF ..."a commie christian like Michael Moore ..." Heh,heh,heh,heh,heh ...I LOVE IT!! :)
regulus
I tried it. I didn't link anything. Just as well. Those sites make me crazy.
qf Fighting off zombies. Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
It looks like a chicken & egg question indeed
Lawyers and Insurance Companies are vampires!
Insurance Companies are vampires!
Bevare, Count Dracula might sue for defamation over such an analogy.....
prash I'm not finished writing about the subject yet. It's a fascinating one to explore. The scope of understanding morals & ethics includes religious & philosophical ideas, & if we allow ourselves to think about it as a evolutionary process... biological & historical ones, too.
qf My job occasionally puts me in the courtroom as a reporter. I've seen the system suck the life out of people.
It's corrupt, it's greedy & way too powerful.
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