The 15th century as an example of the evolution of morals & ethics*
When I was married my husband used to tell me I was crazy & stupid for wasting my time thinking about the whys, hows, & whats of religious, philosophical & even physiological ideas. He thought I was a trouble maker & I actually did embarrass him in church & in front of his friends a few times before I realized that what I thought were valid lines of thoughts & legitimate questions were off limits to the Christian believer who was supposed to accept these things on faith & tradition.
As I said in the last post...In my frustrated quest for truth & knowledge, I discovered the world of ideas via the internet & the rest is history...
The 15th century was an interesting period in human kinds quest for knowledge. It's a good example to illustrate moral & ethical advancements. Lots of amazing things were happening in Europe at that time that confronted traditional ideas about the material & spiritual world. New continents were being discovered & explored.
Science was coming into it's own & exposing exciting new ideas & undeniable proofs about the material & physical world. All of this led to uncertainty & confusion about accepted ideas including those of morals & ethics. These new ideas further opened the door to things like religious pluralism that challenged & threatened old concepts that had been perceived in ignorance & innocently accepted as truth grounded in omniscience.
And, as some of us know from experiences in our personal quests for truth & knowledge, once the door is opened there is no going back to ignorance no matter how innocent, unless we choose to bury our heads in the sand.
History bares (bears?) out that discovery is a painful process but it is the only way we can move forward.
The 15th century as an example of the evolution of morals & ethics*
I'm boning up on philosophy & my knowledge of religion & history. I'm also listening to some fascinating lectures by philosopher Robert Kane where he talks about values & ethics & the modern experience. He calls it "The quest for Meaning".
posted by Rita @ 7:03 AM
15 Comments
15 Comments:
It's important to remember these early stages of progress in the distant past. As frustrating as it is today dealing with creationists and people who think that taboos presevred from the Bronze Age are immutably-fixed judgments on sexual morality, always remember that our ancestors a few centuries ago lived in a moral universe where the Bible was the final word on everything (for everybody, not just one subculture), and burning people and animals to death in public places was considered a normal and acceptable form of entertainment. And it was people born into that debased and barbarous world, like Galileo (your picture) and Kepler and Newton, who were ultimately responsible for moving civilization beyond that, so that later generations (ourselves) did not have to be born into it.
infidel
Very true. It's one of the reasons I love the subject. Considering the progress we've made gives me optimism for the future of human kind.
Reason is the main driving force that brought humanity out of the Dark Ages and into the modern enlightened times, it took the power and the wealth away from the Church and State and delivered in it's place the will of the people to decide upon matters. Well, save for the fact that ignorance fought back with a vengeance, it has not yet been defeated but it does seem to be in a continually dying state. Perhaps reason is the unspoken force that brings forth the moral zietgiest.
Interesting posting Ms.Rita.What did catch my attention was what you said about your husband wanting you to brush it off...I reckon it mattered to him,the peer pressure or something in a smaller town atmosphere must hit home pretty hard.Ya'll actually attended church? Was your husband of the christain faith,and really believed in the archetype figure they project god as? Was there ever a time in your life where you actually believed that there was a god that looked like a human being? Dont answer if you are uncomfortable...please ... I only asked out of curiosity is all.I am somewhat fascinated with the image's/concept's that people create about what god's may look like or not look like,if they believe in such a physical looking being. I love alot of the old biblical art and even gargoyles in architecture...seen some great stuff in museum's and in structure's especially when I stayed in London(UK).Infidel is right saying never forget...because a molehill can easily turn into a mountain, especially when we have so many distraction's around us,as we do now...these folk's are some slippery sob's. I myself am very aware...although I may not sound like I am ...I just keep my profile somewhat low on this.Why? Because I could get made...then they can say...I have an agenda,and all of the sudden would put up their guard against me, and think silly thing's...like I work for their Devil or something.The trick my Dear...is being more slippery than them :) heh,heh,heh,heh,heh then they just simply...walk into the web. :) Kind of like sowing a seed in the mind to harvest later...an investment of sort if you will. :) Mr.Flux also made some very important point here ...when it comes to the wealth angle. Even many people today that are moderate catholic's dont even understand how welthy and politically influencial the Vatican of today is ...they have so much investment...and are gaining more power simply because of that...dont think for a moment that these lawsuit pedophile cases drove the diocese's bankrupt, they just use that talk to draw attention to the stupid and get more loophole's for their investment's ... their all basically a bunch of crook's,even the Knights Templar(1100-1400)who were probably most known for their secret society type occult practice's was influenced and supported by the Vatican. They actually started out like a poor Salvation Army kind of crusader, so poor they were said to ride two men per horse...they became very wealthy and powerful...and ceratinly not because of their worship of the Baphomet archetype later...as the mainstream of religion would make one believe...but because of their involvement with the corruption of the Vatican.They started from what I gathered the first banking system in Europe as well. I should shut the Hell up...I talk too much when I write only. :)
Take Care Ms.Rita.....
qf
I goggled moral zietgiest & came up with Richard Dawkins talking about the subject. Very interesting. I have to admit I've never read any of his books. I'm lazy that way.
On a related note. The substance of a lot of sermons by fundamentalist religious leaders are about, "The sin of doubt", which are arguments against logic & reason. Which means talking the congregation out of making decisions based on reason. i.e. the existence of heaven, hell miracles, virgin birth, etc...etc...
Religious leaders have been doing this since religious leaders have existed. Logic & reason threaten their power structure which is based on an ignorant public.
ranch chimp
I have a long history of religious upbringing. As a matter of fact, I've been baptized 3 times. When I was 6 or 7 in a Baptist church, (before my Mom became a holy rolling pentecostal). In a mountain stream During my "sex, drugs, & rock & roll," days & again when my husband & I became born again pentecostal, in our late 20's.
So as far as baptism goes...I'm covered. :)
Did I ever believe that there was a God that looked like a human being? I suppose when I was a kid, I believed that. As I got older he morphed into something more spiritual, first like the God one experiences on LSD, when I became a born again Christian in my 20s I knew that the image of God as a bearded father figure seating on a throne was just an image. That's when things get complicated, though...then you also have to deal with the whole trinity,Jesus, the holy spirit & God the father. I never did figure it out to my satisfaction. You can get really deep into the whole theological discussion on the subject I found out.
When a person is brainwashed into a religious system as a child, sometimes it's a long journey to get out of it. The born again process was esp. something, I had to do for my own peace of mind. I don't regret it because going through it dispelled any doubts in my mind about whether or not I am on the right path in my own quest for truth & meaning.
As far as the Catholic Church having power through Monetary & corporate means...the denomination I was in "The Assembly of God" is a huge Corporation. They like people to think the church part & the Corporation part are separate. That is not possible, as any person who is not brainwashed by the church knows. While I was a member I remember an interesting campaign they called the "Decade of Harvest" that opened my eyes to a lot of things in the church. I'll have to blog about it.
@Ranch Chimp: Wow, I hadn't really given much thought about the conquest/wealth aspects of the Catholic Church. In all actuality, Catholicism has a 1,500 year history of exploiting cheap labor from the peasants and looting wealth from the Muslims, Vikings, Pagans, Jews, etc. I'm no expert historian about all this, but it does make sense though.
To Mr.Flux ... yes...indeed,cheap labour,is also big business...just like brotherly love.This is how you get the masses to take care of the masses under your dictation and to your will you see.Similar to the "faith based" social services mentality proprosed by so many in the upper echelon's of society ... bottom line...they dictate...and the masses do what they do best...run everything the way they are told to.Actually notice the strong campaign even recently in African nation's by the Pope himself to talk down the use of contraceptive's in the name of "God's bidding" ... the last thing you want is acceptable birth control and people deciding based on economic's or affordabilty,or any reason,deciding if they should allow the pregnancy to go on. If you are of the 3 entities of power...the last thing you want is a shortage of human's...for your battle's you like to play amongst each other...for the work force's to keep competition up and wage's down...and to keep the growing need for mass consumption of good's and resource's...and most importantly...to get them young into a situation of debt to the system...and a life long commitment of feeling they owe the system for helping them survive.They are helping you survive for a reason...the same reason we keep our cow's protected...to keep providing for the dairy industry.We are all cattle at this point in our evolution...but have the will and nature to rise and evolve to actually become the God's that we once wrote about.
As you know Mr.Flux (and I know you know this) ...it is them who need us...we do not need them.
"Ye are gods." Yes we are. :)
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I have met Mr. Dawkins several times. A couple of years ago Richard, I and few fellow atheists crashed the local screening of "No intelligence allowed". The American Atheist convention was in town and he was in town as a guest speaker. Dawkins was parodied in the film after being tricked into being interviewed. The producers and their security did notice Dawkins in the line or the audience - but they threw out PZ Meyers - who was also parodied in the film. All the fundies in the audience were shocked when Mr. Dawkins and several of us atheists confronted the producers publicly afterward.
I have always been amazed how adherents seem to accept being called "children" and "part of the flock" (sheeple). How insulting.
Ben Stein is a whore.
Correction - the producers did NOT recognize Dawkins.
To the Rev. ....Wow! hat an honor that must be to have hung out with Dr.Dawkins! He is someone I admire ... and find interesting.
I just read a great book, Mistress of the Vatican by Eleanor Herman, the true story of a woman who, in effect, ran the Vatican while her brother-in-law was pope. It took place in the mid 1600's ---when it seemed there wasn't a hint of any advancements in morals and ethics. It's a fascinating read. I knew the church was corrupt, but had no idea the extent of the corruption. I can't understand why anyone remained Catholic during that period. I guess they were more afraid of hell than of the church.
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