The lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot
I'm reading an interesting book, The Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot, by Bart Ehrman. The book is Ehrman's scholarly & historical analysis of The gospel of Judas which was mentioned in early 2nd century Christian writings and discovered in a cave the 1970's. After it resurfaced in the 70's it lay around deteriorating until 2000 when it was finally correctly identified as the long lost Gospel of Judas.
I realize this is old news to most people, researched & documented by the National Geographic Society (I haven't watched their documentary yet, BTW) & translated in 2006.
I've recently just got interested in it & I choose Professor Ehrman's book, 'The Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot ' as my initial read, because I respect his integrity.
Early in my journey to atheism, a 24 lecture course of Professor Ehrman's concerning the history of early Christianity really opened my eyes to the difference of understanding religion from a scholarly, educated, ethical & factual POV, as apposed to the strictly biased, conventional, denominational church POV, I had grown up with.
In this video Bart Ehrman say's he works outside of a divinity context & teaches about religion rather then trying to affirm religion. He points out religion is an historical cultural phenomenon & needs to be studied as such. He admits he got interested in the scholarly pursuit of religion as a born again Christian & found over time that there was a conflict between scholarship & his religious convictions. Something had to give & what gave were his religious convictions. His scholarly pursuits had showed him, his view that the Bible was the inspired word of God with out errors, simply wasn't true.
What inspires me in the above video & the current book I'm reading, is the idea that religious writings are for all intents and purposes a search for answers. They should be seen in that historical context, but, as evidenced from my last two posts, the Christian religion apparently has no safeguards to insure ethical standards for what is acceptable as credible or not credible in their own circles. It would not be out of line to say, individual Christians are not encouraged to trust their own judgment but are admonished to follow an authority. When that authority will not even stand up or speak out about blatant abuses, that authority can not be said to hold the flocks best interest at heart.
posted by Rita @ 6:41 AM
13 Comments
13 Comments:
Good Morning Mr. Rita!
Certainly an interesting posting here. What has been remarkable to me over the year's, is what folk's take as the gospel truth or word of God, without realizing first what they are reading and how everything was revised over and over, how many actual text's there are, how it's rewritten time and again to keep up with pop culture of the time, and those who think thing's like the Dead Sea Scrolls are proof of this or that, when only even 2 third's of them been recovered. My mother in law many year's ago... who I was close to and lived with us, was a devout believer in God (no she couldnt stand church) .... one day she told me how the bible was basically nonsense, I asked if she believed any? She said no .... that the bible wasnt wrote by God ... it was wrote by man, and God didnt write nothing ever.
I'll shut up .... Thanx....
RC
I didn't do a very good job of tying the post together, it's a bit disjointed.
The point is though, what you are saying is true.
folk's take as the gospel truth or word of God, without realizing first what they are reading and how everything was revised over and over, how many actual text's there are, how it's rewritten time and again to keep up with pop culture of the time
One of the reasons for that is, Christian people in positions of authority,the pastors, priests, so called shepherds of the flock, even if THEY know the facts, don't bother to tell their congregations. Most Americans are told from the time they are old enough to attend Sunday School that the books in the Bible are all written by the people whose names are on the titles. Of course, the church falls all over it's self disputing the "Gospel of Judas" but they don't bother to mention the dates & real authorships of their own sacred texts.
It's for the same reason they don't bother to expose creeps like Ron Wyatt. It's to their advantage to keep the flock in the dark.
I must agree .........
Of course, it's in the Bible that you must believe the Bible without question.
It's a prety good tactic when one thinks about it. "NEVER question this, or you go to Hell"
So, you see why anything except the Bible one is used to can be seen as "wrong"?
Bart Ehrman has written quite a bit about the history of the origins of the books in the New Testament and how those books were chosen.
He always mentions that he is an historian & historians have to rely on real probability not theological claims. Historians can not establish miracles as evidence of historical truth.
This debate about the resurrection of Jesus between Dr. Ehrman and a Christian apologist illustrate the stubbornness of the religious to rely on what writer Susan Jacoby, calls junk thought. One aspect of junk thought according to Jacoby, involves relying on a belief system that "treats evidence as a tiresome stumbling block to deeper, instinctive "ways of knowing."
In this case, treating theological beliefs in miracles and the supernatural as rational explanations for implausible events. The Christian in this debate uses the Bible as his main source of historical evidence.
Ehrman claims the gospels are not good as real historical sources. In the first place they are not eyewitness accounts but were written from 35 to 65 years after the death of Jesus by educated Greek scholars who were relying on stories not written but orally down passed down for decades.
The Christian again uses junk thought in his closing argument when he appeals to the Christian faith in the resurrection, mainly saying his faith depends on a resurrected Christ & that some how makes it true.
There's also a good many theological scholars who believe that the crucifixion of Jesus is a mistranslation.
JC may have been impaled, or otherwise tortured rather than crucified.
The fundies, however, will argue that their KJV has it right, even if it was written several centuries later....
Rita,
I was fortunate enough to have seen the Gospel of Judas on display at the National Geographic museum in D.C.
I was still a believer at the time, but was struck (despite my belief) about the prevalence of gnosticism in ancient religions.
The very idea opened to me a world that wasn't my own. To me all that existed were Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity. But the Gospel of Judas, far from being heretical, became a document clarifying the 'real' state of Christianity at the time.
A secondary benefit to reading Judas and the very catholic Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Thomas, the Apocrypha, etc. was being able to see past the traditional interpretation of scripture.
I disagree with all of the bible's supernatural claims, but as a historical document I think it has more veracity than people realize. It's just that 'the ancients' were far far far from being the singular, homogenized culture Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have imposed on them. I think that's why certain people don't believe even the most mundane parts. Neither the miracles, nor the ancient cultures and religions fit with Western experience.
mac
The fundies, however, will argue that their KJV has it right, even if it was written several centuries later....
This is why I enjoy these kinds of conversations so much...trying to figure out why these things are so.
I keep finding references to something called "spiritual truth".
Harry
But the Gospel of Judas, far from being heretical, became a document clarifying the 'real' state of Christianity at the time.
Eureka!
In the Bible the value of history is in the spin not the reality.
I'm still thinking about the logic of the Christian apologist who, in his closing argument appeals to Christian faith in the resurrection, as a sign of the historical truth of that resurrection. Basically saying if the resurrection isn't true then the whole thing isn't true. This seems rather twisted to me but, it appears he is basing his logic on a "spiritual reality" of the scriptures.
Somewhere I have a book that has historical influential sermons that were given at different places and times, like in Salem for the Witch Trials and what was preached to slaves in order to domesticate them, etc.
Quantum Flux .... "What was taught to Slave's to domesticate them" :)
I cant help it .... that just had me laughing up a storm when I heard that! Why? .... because we are all "slave's" .... and dont even know it .... we have all been "domesticated" to the machine! :)
Qf I find it interesting that missionaries (Christian, Muslim, etc...)love to go to other countries & convert vulnerable heathens. Of course they aren't called heathens anymore, are they? I mean poor, uneducated, desperate, 3rd world people... People who don't have the resources to sift through the bullshit.
This sort of Despicable thing can be the result. I can just imagine the sermons they must spew.
RC What is the machine? Is it the Government or Society or what?
Ms. Rita: Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh ...."the machine"(?) .... well my Dear .... look at it as kind of like when you made that great statement to me once, that we are now the consumed instead of the consumer's (very similar wording) I loved that way you put it .... which also made me bust a gut laughing, because it is so true! Or look at the "3 entites" that I describe in my posting's and comment's (mega religious, gvmnt, and finance/ corporate institute's) as the one's who dictate. But there is also a flipside as well .... because we are more resourceful than we realize, because we are the actual piston's in motion of the engine, and without us, their empire's collapse. :)
Later GRRRRLLLL! :)
I must of had a Kafka moment
RE: The Penal Colony. Where the "sins" were written on the convicts skin using a ridiculously elaborate sewing machine, overseen by an stuffy overseer stuffed into a stiffing wool uniform in the overbearing heat. "WHEW!"
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