A number of people blogged about the riot police videos taken at a tea party protest in Quincy Ill. a couple of weeks ago & there are half a dozen different videos on youtube recording the incident. This is my favorite, because it captures the party mood of the crowd. Tea party rallies have all the ingredients to make for a successful afternoon outing.
But, the Tea Party protests and rallies are being compared to the Vietnam war protests in the 1960's & 70's.
I compare it to my own recent stint with anti-war protesting in the last Bush years, standing on the street corner with my liberal anti-war friends for an hour on Wednesday afternoon's or going up to the state capitol for a day 's rally.
In fact, if my left leaning friends were in the same situation as the above video & I would guarantee the same level of taunts & jeers of righteous indignation, the same feelings of persecution, and the skewed perspective that this Teaparty lady has.
The above link makes me chuckle because, I know a mother and daughter just like them, but on the liberal side of the fence, that I could imagine acting in exactly the same way!
I had a conversation with a friend about the effectiveness of protesting & other public expressions of dissatisfaction with our government.
She claimed to "have been there & done that" & say's that this sort of thing is a phase & politically minded people will protest , jump up & down & let off steam until they realize it doesn't get them anywhere. She said she was in College during the Vietnam War & ate lots of tear gas, but it never stopped anything from happening. She reasoned for the most part the protesters back then were dismissed as rebellious, counterculture , & too young to know any better.
I'm not sure I agree wholly with that, for one thing during the Vietnam war years, the protest was more then just demonstration against a perceived threat. After all many of the war protesters had a lot to lose, we were involved in a serious bloody war in another country & being shipped off to Vietnam held a pretty good possibility of not coming back. It was a real threat that sustained those protests & many people dedicated themselves to the anti-war movement .
As I see it, the Tea Party protesters, don't have that kind of real & present danger to keep them motivated, their protests have no edge or force behind them.
Standing on a street corner for a couple of hours with your friends, waving at traffic is mostly a lark, an afternoon's entertainment.
That being said, I am curious to see how the Tea Party movement progresses. I'm as fascinated by the politics of it as much as I'm repelled by some of the people in it.
I'm also very interested in other people's opinions.
*hint*
posted by Rita @ 7:06 AM
19 Comments
19 Comments:
I must congratulate you on your open-mindedness. Too many of our blogger fellows on the left have reacted to teabaggerdom by sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting "racist, racist, racist", as if name-calling would make the problem go away.
Yes, they are wrong, but they are a force that cannot be ignored, and in order to deal with them we must understand them accurately.
In the video, the police and protesters actually seemed pretty respectful of each other.
The teabaggers are terribly confused. They're protesting about an explosion of government spending which actually began under Bush. They don't realize Obama has actually cut their taxes.
I saw a poll a few weeks ago which said that 60% of teabaggers consider gay marriage acceptable -- interesting. Perhaps some of them are serious about getting the government out of personal life, and could be lured away from the dark side.
I think your friend was right. Those protests didn't do much, except maybe alienate the ones actually fighting and dying in that other unjust war.
I take it back. Those protesters during Vietnam were acting on their concience...that's never a waste :-)
Notorious
60% of teabaggers consider gay marriage acceptable I'm going to take my own poll of the local population & ask about that. :)
Mac
It always comes down to an individual persons conscience. Protesting the Vietnam war was considered a matter of survival to some people.
Notorious & mac
To continue:
A group of people at a protest rally is always an interesting mix, it is easy to forget when you are on the outside of it, that they are individuals with different degrees of awareness of whatever the real situation is & different motivations for being there.
I respect genuine sincerity, even if it is misguided & I applaud ordinary citizens that care enough to get involved in their communities. I don't mind if people do this sort of thing. I've done it myself, it can be an experience that moves people in a positive direction.
I reckon I kind of agree with you on the protest's of teabag's now vs. Nam protest's, they are quite a bit different it seem's like, and alot of folk's I knew didnt want to go fight in Nam, I knew a couple dude's that went to Mexico, because you could live cheap. I never protested the Nam war, and as dumb as this sound's tried to enlist in the Navy right toward's the end of it (and yes, I carried a "draft card" that I still have to this day), they then started downsizing right around when I tried to enlist, but I had plan's to join the Navy, not to fight, but because everyone told me that you get to travel continuously over the world, and I had a bunch of cash stashed that I wanted to take, and maybe go AWOL in some other country, it was pre- planned in other word's a few year's prior. I frankly didnt care about the war or if I got drafted one way or the other. I am against the Iraq war since day one because it's nothing but a staged fluke, and a money making project to control that region, strategically as well as financially. I dont give hardly any thought to these teabag's, because I have heard them out, since they are said to be an alternative to what we have, and frankly, I see they have some point's maybe, but I see nothing alternative about them, they just sound right wing as alway's to me, nothing different. So I blew them off. As you may know I'm not left or right, and vote dem, only because that's all who is going to make it at this time (dem or rep), and they will make the ride a lil smoother of what I feel is coming as far as economic's and how we are herded, etc. "Freedom"? (lil girl talking)... my Dear ... no pun intended here, but I dont think most folk's would "know" freedom if it slapped them in the face, or what to do if they were suddenly not "told" what to do, in this point of time. But that's just me opinion. I dont see the riot police as being very threatening here, and it work's "against" the gvmnt, because just look what that child thinx now, that made an impression on her that may shape her future thinking.
Thank You Ms.Rita ....
Also I want to add, that I started writing early 2008 about the folk's getting hip and the opposition to come, because you could see all this clear as day a few year's back, just most folk's dont look at the whole picture and only react to the here and now short term, buzz word's, pop thinking, etc. Just as I was pointing out about the "economic's" to come and how they will effect nation's .... when I said that what's to come will not this time just effect us domestically, but will travel globally, which you see now in place's like Greece, Italy, UK, Spain/ Portugal, etc. and I expect it to get a lil more rough because of the way we are taking capitalism of the past basically and trying to globalize it in the manner we are using old school method's in a changing world, being that it can only create economic friction doing thing's old school way. I expect thing's to smooth out, but only "after" actual change .... there has to be adjustment's in how thing's are done by those who control the world's wealth, or you will get nothing but increased chaos, poverty, boom and bust scenario's and an increased amount of the same ole same. The system we know must fall apart piece by piece as we know it, and the playing field MUST become more fair and balanced, as well as downsizing of mega corporate merger's etc, etc. Too big to fail will make you fail in this particular era, it served well in the industrial revolution for instance, when EU nation's, Japan, and America were the master's, we no longer are the master countries except in our own brain's, I reckon is what I am sayin. That's why I been so gung ho on getting Obama in since he was not even a candidate, because he actually see's what is happening, where most dont, or dont want to believe, and pretend that the world can be just business as usual. We are outdated, and this system will either change ... or fail, as every other did in history, whether it was Mayan's, Egyptian's, Rome, etc. "Terrorism and protest's" are all part of what is needed to achieve the change that is needed. The choice is up to the 3 ruling entities of how they want to handle/ play this, and how hard of a ride they want to encounter, no one rich or poor will be extempt from the storm that can form. So they better think, and have more action than BS.
Looking at the whole picture is what I'm attempting to do, or at least see it from a different perspective.
There are things happening in my own town that I'm just vaguely aware of because it is so conservative & churchy(and small)& I'm pretty much considered to be an anti-religious liberal.
Making the comment to notoriousabout taking a poll of the local population in regards to their views on homosexuality, is only partly in jest, because I cannot say in all honestly that I KNOW how they feel about those things, I know only very broadly & mostly by assumption & some experience.
The only way to remedy this is to be at least open-minded enough to put them on equal footing.
I agree that the world is changing significantly. It has been said that we are in a new axial age where ideas about religion, morality, etc...are being redefined. If this is true, Globalism would a large role in that.
Along with a previous commenter, who says the teabaggers are confused, I'm confused about them, too. I recently had a conversation with a woman who laments that the government is taking away her freedoms and spending too much money. She seems to have forgotten about the Patriot Act & the big jump in military spending during the previous administration and the debt caused (at least in part) by lowering taxes (mostly on the rich) since the Reagan years. I wouldn't say all tea baggers are racists, but I have neighbors who are both. They are convinced Obama is not a citizen, that he's a Muslim and a communist ---and he hates white people. Like his white mother and the white grandparents who raised him?
After watching recent news stories marking the anniversary of the incident at Kent State, it seems that the national guard's killing of four students in Ohio perhaps had a much bigger impact for the anti-war movement than the hundreds of protests prior to that. Death suddenly came home.
In Alan Alda's book, Things I Learned While talking to Myself, he admits that all of his protests for many different liberal causes had only one positive result ---they made him feel that he was doing something, even though his actions were mostly ineffectual. I feel the same way about protests I joined when I was young & idealistic. It was unthinkable to do nothing and I didn't know what else to do.
C Woods
I also tend to discount the Tea Party protesters because of their confusion & irrationality.
Just look at their irrational leaders...Glenn Beck, Sara Palin & the like.
Effective & meaningful political protest has to be more then a lark or a walk in the park. The danger & reason behind the protest has to be real, not perceived.
These people though seem to be made up of a class that that has benefited largely from what they are protesting which is Government spending. Like you said:
She seems to have forgotten about the Patriot Act & the big jump in military spending during the previous administration and the debt caused (at least in part) by lowering taxes (mostly on the rich) since the Reagan years.
These same people were all over us liberal peaceniks when I was involved in protesting the U.S. invasion of Iraq & the amount of Government money being spent on that never ending war.
The richer the people are the more they get pissed, that's my experience of being at a Tea Party in Arizona and it clearly reflects the logos of the tax bracket system too.
"The Real Pirates are in Washington"
Anyhow, the most angry ones are the libertarians. My dad was one who went to Vietnam war and he was protesting the taxes too, but I can't see a guy like him shooting at the police officers. However, those illegal immigrant ralliers, on the other hand, will shoot at police officers.
There was a G? climate talk in my city within the last two years, I had contemplated going to protest with everyone else. Of course, my life is too busy to take the time off for such things.
Do I think such protesting can be effective or push forward change?
I don't think so. I think much of it is the media's fault; showing the protesters as oddities, rather than people with a serious concern that has Reason standing behind them.
I have become pessimistic as of late, figuring that at the government level there is too much lobbying to make the significant change required to meet climate change deadlines, at the grass roots level we are too few, and at the interim levels (municipal, state, provincial, county) there are too many people who will stand up for the status quo.
I may someday join a local protest, if only to see if I can meet like-minded people to expand a grass root movement.
qf
The richer the people are the more they get pissed, that's my experience of being at a Tea Party in Arizona and it clearly reflects the logos of the tax bracket system too.
Where I live the most vocal Tea Party people are conservative middle class small business types. It seems they are motivated mostly by the desire to stay ahead & not pay more taxes.
When I talk to them they always add that they got where they are by hard work, not by handouts. Small businesses in this area do struggle to make a living & being successful takes very hard work & dedication on their part. Even then, with one shop,(one finger in the pie) & limited local money to go around, failure can be as simple as someone with a new shop moving down the street.
Throw in some Republican style patriotism & some conservative Christianism and you have the ingredients.
Check out this NYT poll.
and this Gallup poll.
Phil
Media slant or not, the only way for anyone to really know what is up with anything is to research it for themselves.
I would encourage everyone to join a protest rally of their choosing if they are so inclined. It is an experience that at least gets the person immersed in the moment. :)
I tried to comment a few minute's ago, it froze up and said something about a certification problem(?) I dont know WTF it it was .... just that I suddenly felt like President Obama.
Anywayz .... I agree with you Ms.Rita on encouragement to anyone who has it in them to join a protest .... even if it didnt do anything, I see it as therapeutic in a psychological way to your psychological well being. Hell girl, when I was a youngster .... give me a pint of tequila, and a cover band, and I'll protest any goddamn thing! :)
RC
Just knowing American citizens have the freedom to protest is a good thing.
This is something I try to keep in mind when I see something I don't necessarily agree with with or some type of public display I find offensive.
I find it ironic when hate groups like the Westboro Baptist Church exercise a freedom they've been essentially given by a government they despise & if given a chance would deny others the same freedom they are privileged to.
Funny bout ole "$5 Freddie" ( a name I gave Rev.Phelps year's ago when I seen him wearing them cheap double knit suit's, with the Salvation Army lapel's) that year's ago he was known in his area as one of the greatest lawyer's to fight for black folk's and civil right's, and one of the successful one's at that, back in them day's ... the "Mighty Whitey Rightee's", also hated him, but he never mentioned homo stuff in them day's either. Yet for the last couple decade's he's been on a warpath exclusively almost over homo's sex lives. I reckon he take's some of the bible too heavy .... supporting those of color for instance (well at least what he was originally so well known for), but speaking harsh about men lying with other men. But yes Dear .... you make some excellent point's, I mean folk's in some place's like China, or Iran probably wish they had it like us, as far as speaking out I reckon.
Later Grrrrl ........
Location is certainly a must, I can't seem to argue with that concept Rita, even in bigger cities too. I'm still a little mad about my local hobby shop being x-ed out of business, I suppose I should buy my supplies online, supply and demand can be hard on business in itself, throwing higher taxes in makes it even harder though, bailing them out is considered unfair to the competition, etc etc etc.
It's like playing poker, you win some and lose some, but at least it's a more fair game when the blinds (amount of chips to play a hand) are small enough.
Riot, burn down the building's, kill the pig's, destroy the corporate enemies, kill them all!
Just kiddin Ms.Rita .... just wanted to keep the flame's burnin is all. :)
I'm scared to see how it progresses. Too much weirdness there to suit me.
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