I've become interested along with others in the idea of A Federal Civil Union Law. It's an interesting proposal & I believe it's time has come.
If it was up to me, gay people could get married if they wanted, but personally, "Marriage" has sanctimonious religious & social connotations that give me the willies. I think a lot of other people, gay & straight, feel the same way. The idea of a Federal Civil Unions Law is appealing to people like us. It would be a way to cut out the crap, so to speak, & weaken the social and cultural weight that "marriage" & all it's baggage bears.
What really sparked my interest in this subject was the the passing of Proposition 8 in California & the recent hullabaloo over Presidential elect Barack Obama choosing Pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at the inauguration in January. Although Obama has never endorsed gay marriage, he claims to support civil unions, & apparently Rick Warren is not apposed to civil unions or rights for the gay community*, but he does not want gay people to have full marriage rights. He said in the conclusion of this interview that he didn't believe in the redefinition of marriage.
So BFD! Who needs his stupid religious take on it anyway?
I say quit haggling over a word, let them have "marriage" with it's religious overtones & us secular people can push for the 1,200+ rights (that marriage entitles couples to) that would come with a Federal Civil Union Law.
There is more then one way to skin a cat.
*Preachers are slipperier in their answers then Politicians.
posted by Rita @ 8:53 AM
20 Comments
20 Comments:
Okay, but can they get divorced too?
**knock, knock** Is this thing on?
Oh, there it goes. It's workng now.
:-)
qf I don't think the word "divorce" would apply here, a "divorce" goes along with "marriage" I would think the proper term for civil union would be "dissolved". A civil union is a binding contract & of course laws do apply. Figuring out how they do apply is not easy though.case in point
bryan A thousand pardons. :)
Perhaps I heard wrong, but aren't there a lot of gays that got married around California and now it is illegal for them to get divorced based on a civil technicality or something?
I'm not sure about that, but if it is the case it does strengthen the argument for a federal civil union law.
It stands to reason that a federal civil union law would consolidate the concept & eliminate some of the confusion created by individual state rights, such as the problem of what happens when one states laws is in conflict with another.
There needs to be some unilateral standard to start with. Call it a marriage, call it a civil union, call it whatever you want. There needs to be a standard.
Lawyers here don't want to touch a gay/lesbian civil union case. They don't know how to deal with it, neither do the courts. Nobody knows who's rights are who's, or where the rights start and end.
There's a very nice little boy I know who's going to suffer because of that. The civil union wasn't dissolved. Mom died. Now the cunt "other mommy" is fighting for custody... even though she never cared before. The best place for him to be is with his grandmother. I wish she'd realize that.
That is going on because nobody wanted to touch a lesbian civil union "divorce".
That is a good case for pushing a federal civil union law with an across the board standard that trumps state law or at least preempts state law that does not fall into accord with the federal.
Thinking about the divorce/dissolution issue. When break ups get ugly as they sometimes do, I guess it doesn't matter what it's called. Having clear rules that everyone could refer to would at least move things along.
hellooo
I think anyone should be able to marry who they like, as long as they love them...but heck, being maried is hard work.
It's just the issue of rights. Religion can be such a bad and a good thing both. I'm sure Jesus would have supported gay marriage, definitely!
Well, nice to meet you Rita, I like your upscale looking avatar ;)
Thanks qf ;)
Hi fifi! Glad you came to visit.
I agree that anyone should be able to marry whom they want, unfortunately in the U.S. although more people support same sex unions granting gay couples some legal rights, the overwhelming majority appose same sex marriage. As this pew report shows.
I'm sure Jesus would have supported gay marriage, definitely! Unfortunately the large majority of people who believe in Jesus, disagree. Besides I don't think when Jesus said "Love your neighbor" that is what he meant.
You know what they say about meter maids don't you? (taking the low road here)....
They do it for quarters!!
I wish my deceased friend had let me in on the fact she was "getting married". I would have tried my best to talk her out of it.
She did it so "other mommy", (the insane one) could get health benefits even though they weren't together anymore. What a fucking dumb move. She's always used the boy as a tool to get what she wanted. **sigh**
bryan Meter maiding is a noble profession...thanks for the heads up on the problem of gay divorce. Wow! I had no idea
difficulties of divorce
Hello Rita! Your blog sound's familiar,but I cant recall were from...I do know when I see your profile..I think of the "Beatles" :) But this is all interesting...because I am a married straight male for almost 3 decades to the same woman, and I never had a problem with gay marriage(I am not very fond of any organized religion though). I have associated with gay's..well...all my life I guess. They have a culture it seem's of their own, at least in Dallas' gay community.So I figured that "civil unions" of some kind would be a more appealing "title" to them.. in case they didnt want to be generalized with the straight's that is. As I have wrote in my posting's...as far as those straight's that say that gay marriage would degrade or devalue the institution of marriage..this is silly...why? because I dont believe that gay's/lesbian's can degrade or devalue it any more than what straight's have done...that would be a task indeed...based on what the right wing opponent's of today say they value marriage as. Also...marriage as I also posted before...has had many different values and rules and definition's over the centuries, depending what era and culture..even brother sister,multiple partner's,group, and just about every other kind of marriage plan you can dream of.This is all silly nonsense for us to be bickering over.Our cultures and religions are actually our worst enemy. Another thing...if gay's cant legally join somehow...they shouldnt have to pay full taxes...since they dont get the benefit's of every other tax paying citizen. Also by making marriage legal or union's or whatever they choose...I am pro- business...so I look at it as great business!Tux and florist's shop's for instance would benefit, as well as the court's and civil/ family attorney's...so it's good business for everyone. I'd just let them marry and get it over with so we can get on to important thing's that effect our lives,health and pocketbook's. But that's just my little redneck opinion..I'll shut the hell up now.
:) Thanx.
ranch chimp
Also by making marriage legal or union's or whatever they choose...I look at it as great business! That's a point I always thought of as a good reason for legalizing marijuana.
I think the time is coming that it will happen anyway (legalized gay marriage, that is.) Passing a federal civil union law seems to be a good step in that direction.
Yes Rita... I also been wanting for long to legalize pot..and this isnt because I smoke pot or anything like that...I used to smoke pot as a young man..but havent smoked it since my early 30's...and I'm in my early 50's now. it just made me start to hack(cough) too much is all. But I try to point this out in my post's...one recently about the "Drug War" and why it will only fail...and also financially drain us...understand...it's the dope cartel's/dealer's that DO NOT want drug's legalized...as well as those in the prison industry and court's and legal representation, it's too long to bring up here, but if you ever have the time...please check it out...I got a couple post's on it actually. Yeah...we alway's whine about money but never do nothing to actually benefit us financially. Besides...what the hell is wrong with pot? It's popular as beer..and I dont know of a redneck that dont love a joint with their beer either in Texas..It's kind of a cultural thing here..you know...sharing border with old Mexico and so forth. Hell...back in the early 70's...we were buying one pound brick's of 20/lid pot for $90 buck's a pound in Texas, and you could drive several pound's back then to New York where a lid was selling for about $60/$80...as to $10 in Texas for the same. I am not saying I did this...I am saying many folk's did.
And of coarse the profit's were so enormous...many done just that.
I was wondering where the heck you went :-)
I don't smoke pot, but i know plenty of people that do.
I'd rather be around people stoned on pot then drunk people as a rule.
The other day I went with my son in law to the pot store. (He has a medical Marijuana card) it seemed very strange to watch that kind of transaction, perfectly legal & ordinary. I guess it's the same people that don't want gay marriage that don't want pot legalized. Well, times are changing.
Such problems actually illustrate why legal gay marriage would be better than civil unions.
With civil unions, we'd be creating a new institution. Countless problems like joint tax filing, inheritance, hospital visitation rights, adoption, "divorce"/dissolution, etc. would all need to be solved from scratch.
If we just allow gays to make use of the existing institution of marriage, then all the existing laws covering those issues would simply apply to them too. No need to invent any new rules for a new institution.
While it's true that marriage has been linked with religion, it has also been a secular and civil institution in many societies for a very long time. Far more (heterosexual) atheists get married than seek "civil unions". Creating something separate for the gays may be an acceptable intermediate step, but as a permanent solution, it would always smell of "separate but equal".
infidel
If we just allow gays to make use of the existing institution of marriage, then all the existing laws covering those issues would simply apply to them too. No need to invent any new rules for a new institution. That does make sense.
In reading more about gay marriage vrs. civil unions & taking into consideration the weak arguments against gay marriage & the problems associated with gay marriage being decided by individual state courts. I think A federal law is definitely in order. I think that in the near future a decision by the Supreme court on the constitutionality of same sex marriage is a possibility. Hopefully, after President Obama is able to appoint a couple of liberal supreme court judges. :)
The statistics show that public opinion is changing anyway, & younger people are far more receptive to the idea of gay marriage then seniors.
It's probably only a matter of time.
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